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Batch vs. Real Time Processing, Print vs. Online Journalism: Why the Best Web News Brands Will Never Look Like The New York Times
by Cody Brown

It has been a long time coming but the NYT’s and the uber popular silicon valley blog, Tech Crunch, finally smashed into one another. This weekend’s Sunday Times came with a trend piece in the Business section on how big tech blogs (like Gizmodo and TC) publish ‘groundless’ rumors for hits. Many considered it to be a kind of hatchet job directed at the site and for the past few days it triggered a sprawling controversy where everyone from Jeff Jarvis to Charles Author weighed in.

The analysis arrived at a pretty classic conclusion,  Tech Crunch Vs. NYT is really an example of David Vs. Goliath  where one isn’t following the rules that the other is making. This is the case (and if you haven’t read the Gladwell piece, you must) but  there is a more helpful way to think about what is happening. It comes  down to this:  print news sources and web news sources are made for entirely different types of information processing, print works best in batch and online works best in real time. 

Tech Crunch and others like it are not breaking rules so much as they are doing what works for their medium. Each platform suits a specific type of news brand and answers core questions differently. 

How To Build a Great News Brand
Print Vs. Online

Print

Gestalt: Batch Processing. The medium requires that  Information is processed in chunks. A program takes a large set of data files as input, processes the data using a system, and produces an output file.

magicjournalism7

How should a great paper develop its brand? 
As the voice of god. Most of the biggest city newspapers took The Times’s lead in the 1890’s and have since spent a century developing their brand as public trusts that get it right the first time, all the time. When two city newspapers are in competition with one another, it is a war of access and infallibility - slighting an organization with a piece that is full of ’scuttlebutt’ leads to sources less willing to talk to the paper the next time. The community does not own the paper, an average person has little ability to influence it and because of this the paper is under constant scrutiny. It needs to create an aura that its work is in the interest of the public. Competitive newspapers spend millions of dollars hiring j-graduate reporters, copy editors, fact checkers, section editors, managing editors, all to create a kind of trust between the community and its information provider. When they drop a story, it is designed to be read as fact. 

How should a print newspaper publish information about a developing story? 
Cautiously. It should triple check it’s information and  call every source involved in the story to give them an opportunity to comment.  The consequences are great when Newspapers publish something wrong, it doesn’t take more than a few careless edits for a newspaper brand to fall to pieces.

How should it output its work?
Into tight neatly written comprehensive articles that it can then sell as part of a wire service. Articles meant to exist as a ‘first draft of history.’

Who should edit and produce a print newspaper?
Professionals. It’s expensive. A finite number of pages means a constant question: what is newsworthy to the most number of people?

—-

Online

Gestalt: Real Time Processing.  Information is processed  on the fly.
rtmagic5

How should a great online news source develop its brand?
As an open platform. Instead of putting brand value on the final output of a news organization  put value into a process of verifying news. Take the values/tactics  that go on behind the walls of a newsroom (’the magic journalism box’) and execute them publicly. 

How should an online news source publish information about a developing story?
Instantly. When a page is able to be updated at any frequency, corrections can be made just as fast. Rumors and gossip can be used as leverage to get sources, who otherwise wouldn’t, to spill what they know. Publishing incomplete information is the fastest way to get users to contribute to the bigger picture. This is a tactic in effective commons-based-peer production and it is how Wikpedia grew so fast and so well. As Harvard Law Professor, Yochai Benkler, describes, it often looks like a “disaster area.” This is the ’scuttlebutt’ the Times can’t wrap its head around.

How should it output its work? Into everything. API.

Who should edit and produce an online news source?
Everyone in the beat. When a website has unlimited pages: there is no excuse.

The Tragedy of a Print Newspaper Brand Going RT

It’s possible for a news website to work (and even do decently) without playing to the unique real time characteristics of the web medium just as it’s possible for Tech Crunch to print out its articles and throw them into a small-circ industry newspaper. The challenge is in branding. The New York Times is powerful because whatever falls under its logo has an immediate effect of seeming true. This is its biggest asset, and what it has spent the past century painstakingly building.  The problem with branding the news product over the news process is that its readers see the NYT’s like this:  

magicjournalism81

 

The messy, opinionated, incomplete, rumorladen, shit-show that is actual news production is hidden away. If you want a real time news website, it must be brought to the surface. This isn’t a problem for a brand like Tech Crunch, but it puts print news brands in a terribly awkward position. How does The New York Times show the mess under its articles without wrecking the omniscient aura of the brand it has worked so hard for? 

Lets imagine a scenario. The Times gets word from an inside source that Twitter is selling to Facebook. What should they do? Publishing it outright would trigger a Twitter surge of, ‘Times: Twitter/Facebook Deal may be on the table.” This could burn them if it fails. Not publishing would be as risky. They make calls, sit on their thumbs, and sweat. By the time they decide to publish their tech journalist is usually doing little more than writing conclusive sounding summaries of comment threads on Gizmodo

Batch is killing them. Online, it is expensive, slow, and wasteful. It’s not sustainable and it’s a problem that will only get bigger for the The New York Times. They can turn more attention to their own blogs, but the branding still neuters them,  there is a reason ‘Bits‘ gets few comments and hasn’t taken off to any significant degree.  

The fundamental problem The New York Times has online is that its brand carries too much weight. The Times stamp means a piece has been packaged, and is no longer in process. If they’re interested in participating in the journalism of the 21st century, they need to shed the baggage of the last one. 

They won’t.


37 Comments

Excellent post. I saw Jill Abramson (managing editor of the Times) give a lecture about new media a few months ago, and was incredibly annoyed with the arrogant way she dismissed every news organization that was NOT the New York Times. Basically, the NYT thinks that, because they have existed for so long as a bastion of journalistic truth, they will always continue to exist – a short-sighted view indeed.

I’m not sure, given the Gray Lady’s current financial instability, that the NYT will be bold enough to re-make itself, for to do so would require a serious overhaul of top level management, and a rethinking of its entire journalistic philosophy. I don’t want to see the Gray Lady fall – I still read their website daily – but at times I feel sadly resigned to the possibility.

Posted by avallonne on 11 June 2009 @ 1pm

But I think you haven’t quite got it. You’re taking it as either/or. But there’s room for both. The NYT can have brand, and it can do real-time (it’s all over Twitter, and it has blogs, and it has really good contacts and access. OK, perhaps it could speed up. But then, we all could in papers.)

What’s hurting the NYT and other papers is the disintermedation of their business model from their journalism. The NYT and other papers need a new working business model. The challenge is that it may generate a lot less money. Real-time vs batch isn’t necessarily all. Papers are good in some respects.

(And – pedantry corner – “it’s” is not possessive; it’s short for “it is”. Possessive is “its”.)

Posted by Charles on 11 June 2009 @ 4pm

Great post. Here’s my question: Given that journalism is a human process, rather than a mathematical one, how does it account for the ethics of real-time processing when in many cases, what’s being processed is another human being’s reputation?

Even batch processing often does a poor job of handling this ethical situation. And I’m not saying real-time processing can’t evolve feedback loops and ethics that do a better job.

I am saying, however, that it’s a really lousy feeling to suspect that all your systems have failed to protect the reputation of an innocent person who deserved better.

Discuss.

Posted by Dan on 11 June 2009 @ 10pm

This is great stuff. (Especially all the illustrations. Gee whiz.)

Cody touches on a useful point early on: this may simply be a branding problem. If the NYT could differentiate its batch-processed “true” brand from its RT-processed “interesting” brand, that’d help, right? Alternatively, two separate companies could simply maintain separate brands and separate services.

Cody makes the common assumption that to function in the 21st century, RT reporting is the ONLY way to compete. But as Charles says, reliability is still very valuable … especially to the less-informed, less-savvy general audience, who (unlike Cody) simply don’t have time to track each twist and turn of a story, assigning the proper grain of salt to each.

I suspect that whatever general and almost-general audiences survive in the future will continue to be drawn to the batch-y side of the spectrum rather than the RT side. If that means the news is collated and delivered more slowly, so be it.

By the way, it definitely mitigates Dan’s concern if a news outlet that happens to regularly spread interesting libel is branded as such. We know this is possible — we’ve been seeing it at check-out stands for the last 50 years.

Posted by Michael Andersen on 12 June 2009 @ 2am

@avallonne

Yes – I was at the same panel with Jill Abramson – I know she was in a tough position but my god was that a trainwrek. Remember when she spent 3 minutes projecting screenshots of the NYT’s on the wall set to Coldplay? Her ending quote, if I’m not mistaken was, “Some may call us dinosaurs, but remember, dinosaurs roamed the earth for millions of years.” Yeah… that pretty much sums it up.

Posted by Cody Brown on 12 June 2009 @ 2pm

@Charles

It is either/or insofar as you will need to make a decision on when to publish rumors or information that is coming in Real Time. If you’re saying that a news brand can do that – then add a batch like summery of this info later – then I agree. If you’re saying that the NYTs brand can publish all this info RT – I’d say they’d have a lot of trouble.

The business model is, of course, a problem for print newspapers going online and there is no way the NYT would be able to have so much traffic-getting-content on its website if it wasn’t for all the ad revenue it’s still makes from its print product.

What’s a big plus about a news brand going RT is that if you can figure out a way to use your beat to contribute/curate/monitor it becomes significantly cheaper. Unless you really think a micropayment model is at all feasible or online advertising will suddenly surge in value, then the only thing you can really do for the ‘business model’ is reduce costs. Tech Crunch finds ways to do this and, in my opinion, it’s really only hitting the surface level of what users can contribute (crunch base is a good start). Because of the brand’s inherent caution, it would be much more difficult for the NYTs to pull this off. It’s vulnerable to a competitor that applies an RT method of dealing with the news to everything the site does. The NYT’s would probably have it’s best luck in more agile RT spinoffs rooted in specific beats.

Posted by Cody Brown on 12 June 2009 @ 4pm

[...] batch processing, and why online & print are both useful Jump to Comments I found this post and thought it was informative, provocative, and reassuring. Cody Brown makes the point that both [...]

Posted by Print journalism as batch processing, and why online & print are both useful « J4460 Advanced Reporting on 12 June 2009 @ 6pm

It is an over-simplification to say that major media brands only report the verified facts of news. Whether it is politics, finance, entertainment or any other of the major topics, the NYT and all other news organisations regularly discuss unverified speculation, gossip and rumour. Imagine trying to cover the gyrations of company stock prices for example without discussing rumours. The real issue is how clearly you label such unverified material.

Posted by Mark Jones on 13 June 2009 @ 1am

@Mark

I am not saying that mainstream news brands only report verified facts, of course they do. They engage rumor, speculation, gossip, and conjecture (especially broadcast news). The difference between Batch and RT processing is about when you publish information (instantly), who you allow to publish (everyone), and where you make sense of it (on the site). RT tactics are at times used by brands like CNN when there is a hurricane or a school shooting, but there are still understandable verification steps that go on behind their ‘magic journalism box’. When you open your newsroom to your entire beat labeling and effectively organizing this information on the fly is the challenge of RT. I’ve yet to see a news brand do this well.

Posted by Cody Brown on 13 June 2009 @ 2am

[...] medievirkelighet, som ikke alltid er like vidunderlig, har Cody Brown en veldig interessant post om hvorfor de beste nettnyhetstjenestene ikke vil se ut som New York Times (også via Sambrook). Tag’er: brukergenerert innhold, [...]

Posted by Vår Vidunderlige Nye Medievirkelighet « NONA: nettverket for oss som jobber med nettmedier on 14 June 2009 @ 5am

Cody – how would reporting of the Iranian election work under your batch vs. real-time principle?

Posted by Adrian Monck on 14 June 2009 @ 7am

Your premise is deeply flawed. Totally amateurish.

The presentation, though, flows really well, just like a sophomore’s A+ assignment.

Don’t pretend to be a journalist if your stories are published without going through the full editorial “batch” process. RT is gossip, not reporting.

But I don’t have time to give you complete details to justify my critique just yet. Suffice to say that I have a ton of evidence, and you would be thoroughly convinced if you could see it now. However, this critique is being developed in real-time. Stay tuned.

Posted by Mike Greene on 14 June 2009 @ 9pm

@Adrian Monck

It would look like an organized version of this: http://twitter.com/#search?q=%23iranelection

Posted by Cody Brown on 15 June 2009 @ 1am

[...] Batch vs. Real Time Processing, Print vs. Online Journalism: Why the Best Web News Brands Will Never…, Cody Brown [...]

Posted by Links for today | Links para hoje « O Lago | The Lake on 15 June 2009 @ 5am

[...] in response to that, Cody Brown (via Jay Rosen) put up a fascinating and thought-provoking writeup comparing online to print journalism — noting that print is “batch processing” while online is “rea… and explaining why this makes it so difficult for print to either understand the value of online [...]

Posted by Online Journalism vs. Print Journalism: Real Time vs. Batch Processing on 15 June 2009 @ 6am

@ Mike Greene

I think you meant to say your critique is being processed in “batch”-time, that is, slowly, and on your own, without the input of anyone else.

I’m certainly glad you have a ton of evidence to justify your critique, as I was prepared to consider the possibility of an alternative viewpoint, weighing the evidence for myself. I’m so glad to know there are still authoritative voices who can do my thinking for me!

You forgot to leave a link though Mike. I’m just wondering where I should tune-in later to get updates? Will there be ads displayed between now and then?

Posted by Shane on 16 June 2009 @ 3am

Impressive post Cody, and gets right to the crux of the dilemma.

Posted by Rachel Sterne on 16 June 2009 @ 4pm

This post is music to my ears, Cody. I’m in the process of writing up my PhD – a study of the magic journalism box. A few years ago, I installed keystroke logging and screen recording software in a newsroom in Belgium to see how print journalists actually write from sources (press releases, news agency feeds). Here’s a sample paper.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/13853652/NTT-WPS-2-Van-Hout-Pander-MaatDePreter

Tom

Posted by Tom Van Hout on 17 June 2009 @ 5pm

The New York Times, in the face of either changing or becoming extinct as the dinosaurs it apparently identifies with, seems to be developing a news blog.

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/

The blog, although not yet far reaching, lately focuses on the Iran election controversy, something that requires real time coverage from scores of sources. And that’s exactly what they’re doing. Just as NYU Local adapted itself to the demand for information with the Kimmel occupation, so the New York Times has made the first steps to adapting to its readers.

This blog has given me new confidence in the Times and all it has to offer the 21st century. On top of using their journalistic prowess to analyze and process the goings on in real time, they’re also digging through the pile of information that is the internet for clues, citing unverified articles, correcting themselves where needed. In other words, doing basically what you said they wouldn’t do. By establishing this blog inside the Times website, they seem to have sidestepped, at least for the moment, your mandate that they shed their commitment to ‘packaged’ news.

This leads me to the overarching idea that the debates involving the future of news media, especially involving the internet, seem to glaze over: there is an audience for both packaged news and live news, speculative columns tied neatly in a bow as well as live, up the minute coverage, complete with hundreds upon hundreds of user comments.

I oppose the idea that the only way journalism, particularly the Times, can survive on the internet is to provide news stories that are ‘in process.’ The television equivalent would be watching CNN all day, everyday (in fact, it seems CNN is relying more and more in the internet, citing and reading Twitter and Facebook messages on the air), getting rid of shows like 60 Minutes, and other nightly news programs. (This brings up another set of issues entirely, so try to just look it as an metaphor rather than a direct comparison)

This limitless amount of pages and therefore news stories that blog sites have at their fingertips, just like the 24 hours CNN has as its, can be their greatest asset, but can often turn into the most crippling feature. Many think that more information is better, and in many ways it is, but it must be understood that not all of the world is an internet buff or a journalism major, and do not have hours to spend on the internet or the television searching for the latest on whatever happens to be going on at the time. The packaging Times articles undergo are not simply because there are a limited number of square inches on the page, but also a limited time and attention span of the reader.

Again, I am not arguing for or against either side, I am simply acknowledging that the Times tradition of packaging its content, and its trustworthiness is not its weakness, but its strength, and these things should not be compromised in order to become more like everything else on the internet. Adaptation is necessary, but not to the extent that you seem to be demanding. Their blog can, and I hope will, prove this. They can be both trustworthy and groundbreaking at two different levels, without either tarnishing its counterpart.

As it is in most debates, the answer lies somewhere in the middle. Between instantaneous news and their credibility, the Times must strive for both in order to succeed.

Posted by Blake on 18 June 2009 @ 2pm

@Tom

Your paper is striking. How on earth did you convince them to let you install keystroke logging software?

Posted by Cody Brown on 19 June 2009 @ 10am

@Blake

I think the NYT’s Lede blog is a good step toward RT but I don’t think it’s even close to fulfilling its potential. Same is true for NYU Local’s coverage during the Kimmel Occupation – we pushed what we could with our posting and our brand, we got serious traffic, but there was a lot we couldn’t publish or even sort because there was just so much coming to us. My email alone was getting around 200 messages an hour.

RT Journalism is about when you publish information (instantly) but it’s also about who gets to publish in the first place. Even in a set-up like the Lede, sure, they are publishing unverified information from a lot of different sources but they are not giving sources the access to publish themselves. Additionally, they don’t explain who they aren’t publishing. So there is still a magic journalism box here that curates without explanation, just as there was during the Kimmel Occupation for NYU Local. Both brands are showing a little more of their process but they still define themselves by their output.

Also, yes. Don’t get me wrong, packaged, or ‘batch’ content has a place and will never go away. No one is a total nerd on EVERY subject, sometimes you just need to sit down and have someone explain Darfur or why Michael Phelps is good at swimming. I’d say though that getting the news first is what’s strategically important. It’s much more effective to amass news on a story and do batch sounding pieces on top then to try and go vice-versa.

Keep in mind, in the same breath, I’d also say that Twitter is a poor platform for RT Journalism. Everyone who uses it right now for RT-J is bootstrapping, the reason it’s gotten so much attention is because it’s the best and biggest we have at the moment. This can change.

Posted by Cody Brown on 19 June 2009 @ 11am

[...] on June 19, 2009 NYU Local founder (and Outside.in intern) Cody Brown offers a very interesting dissection of print and online journalism from a different point of view, one that raises all sorts of [...]

Posted by Of IPhones and Iran: Thoughts on Batch vs. Real Time « Reinventing the Newsroom on 19 June 2009 @ 2pm

Very interesting take, Cody — I think you’ve put your finger on a key problem for papers trying to adapt to digital, and the perspective you’ve adopted side-steps a lot of pretty well-worn debates.

I have some objections to the either/or case you seem to have made that I won’t go into at length — they’re on my own blog, and Blake has outlined much the same case anyway.

Maybe other journalists won’t agree, but I do think that a more-transparent newsgathering operation (within the bounds of responsibility regarding sources, off-the-record material, etc.) would make most readers think more highly of their paper, not less. Yeah, there’s sausage getting made back there, but from my experience the process is far more honest and responsible than readers seem to think it is.

Granted, a more-transparent process makes it harder for the Times to be the voice of God, and would be a huge cultural change for them. But being the voice of the New York Times would still be pretty good….

Posted by Jason Fry on 19 June 2009 @ 2pm

[...] print and online journalism (again) 19 06 2009 Inspired by a number of recent blogs by Cody Brown, Jay Rosen, Charles Arthur, Robert Picard, Michael Arrington), I’ve tried to list a number of [...]

Posted by On print and online journalism (again) « Tom Van Hout on 19 June 2009 @ 3pm

Hi Cody. To my surprise, convincing the journalists was not difficult at all. In fact, they found it highly amusing to watch videos of themselves at work. However, it did take me almost 5 weeks to convince the IT department that the software would not KO their entire network.

Posted by Tom Van Hout on 20 June 2009 @ 7am

my only beef with this is online reporting that is done real time ought not to even try to be authoritative. it’s not “facebook to buy twitter” headline, but “we’re hearing rumblings that facebook wants to buy twitter”

then you can have the conversation.

not only is online reporting real time, its conversational.

Posted by fred wilson on 22 June 2009 @ 4pm

[...] of process journalism, Tom Van Hout reminds me that the quote is not directly his, but is from a post by Cody Brown on similar topics. My fault for blurring Tom’s post with his authorship. I was a bit sloppy, in other [...]

Posted by Print versus online journalism – the view from Belgium « Freelance Unbound on 25 June 2009 @ 5am

[...] readers increasingly demand, and that makes papers paranoid because it seems to run counter to the “batch” culture of newsgathering that evolved to serve print. But while it’s a cultural shift, it’s not one to fear. By [...]

Posted by The Value of Twitter, the Persistence of Email « Reinventing the Newsroom on 26 June 2009 @ 11am

[...] Brown has an excellent article which shows the inherent differences between print and online, in terms of how news is processed. [...]

Posted by Broken News models | b r a n t s on 28 June 2009 @ 10pm

Some interesting points. I particularly like the RT vs batch processing concept—even though I think it betrays a certain tech-loaded historicism. As Jason and Blake have pointed out, newspapers haven’t been about the pursuit of Truth for a long time. Your model conflates authority with technology and business model—a potted view of journalistic history that is particularly American. Have a look at the Times (of London) or the Guardian. Hell, even the WSJ. All very different kinds of products.

While you’re expanding your palette, you might also consider taking your model outside Gizmodo: Is RT equally powerful in financial markets where there is an authoritative RT stream of statistical info? When it comes to interpreting and understanding complex and often conflicting financial information— for example, the real estate market, with a maze of often conflicting data (housing starts, unemployment, inventory—RT leaves much to be desired, although it also brings tremendous strength to user-focused needs. In your rush to anoint RT the historical victor over print, you’ve neglected to ask whether RT, and its reporting conventions, are satisfying readers, whether there still might be other realms of innovation for news, reporting, and content strategy to conquer.

That takes me to my last concern: You never mention the C word: customers. For a long time, the Times, Time, and the rest, pissed a lot of us off with their lack of focus on what users want, on that omniscient perspective you call the voice of god. I think this has started to change in a variety of ways. No doubt, early attempts at innovation were half-hearted tech plays, to stave off what was once referrred to (with real terror) as “cannibalization,” and to mollify the digerati. To your point, it’s no longer digerati at the door, it’s history—a paradigmatic shift in the very nature of what we call news. But RT, to my eyes has yet to create a satisfying customer alternative to MSM (yes in aggregate, but a resounding no in terms of a single vendor). Until you figure out what customers want, how RT can be arrayed to create new products worthy of the audiences that want them, you’ll have skipped the boots-on-the-ground battle to innovate new in 2009-10. That may be ok if you’re focused on 2025—but that’s probably enough time for the Times and gang to figure it all out.

Posted by Craig Bromberg on 6 August 2009 @ 8pm

I’d disagree. All that newspapers need to do is learn how to marry audience to platform. That’s what blogs did, that’s what TC did, that’s what anybody with a website needs to do.

It has nothing to do (or very little) with the process.

Posted by Patricia on 8 August 2009 @ 1am

@Craig

Excellent points. Yes, my analysis is focused on the more idealistic NYT – a paper that saw(sees) itself as a Public Trust.

I think your point about RT already existing in financial markets is really interesting. Of course where this would be different is that it would mix ‘authoritative’ information with analysis, voice, and opinion.

I’m not saying that RT will be the end all be all of news production, I’m saying it will serve as its bedrock. You can build anything on top of it that would satisfy consumers and enable others to dig deeper. Hire a few engaging writers and you could pull together a Sunday Magazine, hire a few filmmakers and you can build a broadcast news station on top of it. All of it for much much less than what it costs now.

Posted by Cody Brown on 9 August 2009 @ 12am

Real time processing is a perfect description of the inherent character of the web and why, I suspect, traditional media brands have so little confidence in how to capitalize on it.

Latent conflicts are emerging.

Demand for Print, Radio, Television emerged because they offered broader distribution of otherwise limited access live communication (information and entertainment).

But established Print, Radio, Television brands have come to believe that they are better than live. Newspaper editors can research and analyze better than their readers. Audio and video producers can deliver a listening or viewing experience that is better than real.

It is difficult to convince them that there is something lost. We like to analyze for ourselves. There is value to sharing a live performance with others and contributing to the energy level.

The interactivity of the internet offers a virtual opportunity to deliver this energy of live communication more broadly.

This is the beginning of a very exciting time. And it would be very valuable to create an event to talk about the implications of this blog and connect all the stakeholders committed to real time processing of information and transactions.

@comradity

Posted by Katherine Warman Kern on 15 August 2009 @ 11am

[...] online written journalism these days: batch and live. For a great 101 as to which is which and why, read this. The real issue here is ethics. Live writing is, in my opinion, more akin to blogging in that you [...]

Posted by Blog Atrophy « on 19 August 2009 @ 8pm

I think you made some good points in your post.

Posted by cibincems on 27 September 2009 @ 7pm

[...] http://codybrown.name/2009/06/09/batch-vs-real-time-processing-print-vs-online-journalism-why-the-b... a few seconds ago from web [...]

Posted by joab jackson (joabj) 's status on Thursday, 05-Nov-09 04:37:00 UTC - Identi.ca on 4 November 2009 @ 11pm

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Posted by joab jackson (joabj) 's status on Thursday, 05-Nov-09 05:00:08 UTC - Identi.ca on 5 November 2009 @ 12am

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